20 grains of fffg is what to pyrodex
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06-20-2019,12:24 PM #i
Dislocated About Measuring Black Powder
Blackness powder loads are always described as measured by "book", not weight. What is the volume of, say for case, l grains by weight of powder? Are all the "volume" powder measures calibrated to the the same standard? Why not set your measure by weight? What am I missing hither?
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06-20-2019,12:36 PM #2
My mensurate has trivial hash marks for reference. the 5 hash marks comes close to 50 grs with fffg, simply with ffg information technology's about 45 grs. you'll have to cheque weigh a few drops to see how the measure you use drops. it matters as well if y'all tap on your mensurate to settle the charge. most of what I see for volume charges are replica powders not black. black is listed by weight and granulation.
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06-20-2019,12:37 PM #iii
Boolit Buddy
I think due to the weight changing with humidity in the air etc...for example you tin can counterbalance it one 24-hour interval in the hummid summertime at 20 grains so again on a dry out fall day and they will be different amounts when compared to eachother...although using the volume measurement it will always be the same or atleast very shut. Atleast thats what i think. Although i have tested my spouts against ane another weight and volume wise and they arent accurate...off by a couple grains or so on the scale and against other same size book spouts. Although I accept ane adjustable volume spout that matches volume to weight.
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06-twenty-2019,12:46 PM #4
A lot make their ain measures. I believe most purchased measures are graduated to 2 f granulations and volition be slightly different with dissimilar granulations or dissimilar brands fifty-fifty. A very nice measure can be made with a piddling hard wood some brass tubing and time. A piece of tubing with ID close to rifles bore dia. a slice of hard wood fitted to the tube snug, glued and pocket-sized nails to hold it in place . finished to brand a handle or lanyard holder. leave tube long when fitting the terminate in. I go out the total 1 foot length of hobby tubing. Cascade the measured charge into tube and measure out downwardly to the powder with a loose fitting dowel and marking dowel. remove pour out powder and cut tube slightly longer than marked dowel. Now file stop square and to where it throws the desired charge past book.
Y'all can get fancy with this adding rings of other metals woods or materials. Brads blued dark in a brass tube stand out a polished brass tube with backend nails and a walnut finish finished up can really be nice. Remember to break all edges and polish upwards the surfaces for condolement your treatment information technology alot
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06-twenty-2019,12:49 PM #5
well you hit the smash on the head with that i.
roughly speaking forty grains off BP volition fill a 45 acp case to the skirt.
keep in mind that at the time of black powder rifles. the shooter carved out their ain powder measure. if the even used i.
and so a 40 grain past volume was independent between each shooter and or pulverization mensurate manufacturers.
now nosotros have fancy scales and precision instruments.
I would buy a sliding brass powder mensurate for 10 bucks. or a set of Lee dippers. and shoot till you find the load that fits your gun.
also a traditional black powder rifle are way different then the new inline ones.
only other advise I got is if you ate shooting a traditional be very careful with the pre packed pellet loads.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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06-20-2019,02:07 PM #six
I know an empty .444 case works well as a measure for my .45 T/C, and I ain't too worried nigh loosing it. Information technology'due south right at the seventy gr by book of Pistol pyrodex. Which probably doesn't assistance yous a bit.......
Tom
μολὼν λαβέ
Did I ever mention that I hate to trim brass?
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06-20-2019,05:32 PM #seven
Boolit Bub
With my home made powder beingness litter by volume ( not compressed) compared to bought pulverization I use 200 grains by thrown volume for a 100 grain by weight charge. Don`t retrieve also much into information technology. Observe the corporeality of powder the rifle likes and that's what goes down the pipe.
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06-20-2019,06:31 PM #8
black powder - front stuffers measure by volume, cartridge loaders measure by weight. that's all at that place is to that.
every bit already mentioned, get a brass adjustable book measure. use information technology to test out what load yer gun prefers. a practiced starting point to use the gun's bore for the book counterbalance of black pulverisation - i.e. 50 grains by volume for a .50 long gun - increment upward by 5 grains and examination for the all-time consistent accuracy.
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06-twenty-2019,06:50 PM #9
I always causeless it had more to practise with the introduction of Pyrodex than anything. A fifty grain by volume accuse of real blackpowder should weigh 50 grains more or less. What course you are using, humidity, and operator error can change that, but it should be close. Since all black pulverisation substitutes are i-1 with blackpowder by volume only, it is simply rubber to do everything that manner.
The other affair is that volume measuring is more accurate than needed, blackpowder beingness so forgiving, and is so much more convenient.
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06-xx-2019,07:14 PM #x
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Originally Posted by megasupermagnum 
I e'er assumed it had more to practise with the introduction of Pyrodex than anything.
nope, it was e'er a volume measurement, from 24-hour interval one, more than a few centuries agone.
A fifty grain by volume charge of real blackpowder should counterbalance 50 grains more than or less.
mostly no, though though weighing doesn't matter if book charging a tube. volume/weight will likewise change with bp granule size.
What grade yous are using, humidity, and operator error can change that, but it should be close. Since all black powder substitutes are one-1 with blackpowder by volume only, information technology is but safe to do everything that mode.
for the most role no - at that place is a sliding scale when comparing real bp confronting the phony smokeless stuff, and the charges are at least somewhat different on the low end and more significant every bit they increase.
The other affair is that volume measuring is more accurate than needed, blackpowder being so forgiving, and is so much more convenient.
100% correct for a front stuffer!
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06-20-2019,07:27 PM #xi
We know that the substitutes have different velocities than blackpowder. There are differences in velocities with different black powder brands. It's the pressure level that is supposed to be 1 to one by book. Again, y'all are right that they are not, just safety wise, that was the idea.
I will say that the few times I dumped a volume of blackpowder on a scale, information technology was reasonably close. At least within a couple grains or so. Now that I think of it, I was probably using Lee powder scoops. Maybe a muzzleloader pulverisation measure is completely incorrect.
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06-21-2019,12:02 AM #12
Here's a weight to volume conversion chart.
An important thing to remember is that Swiss powder is approximately 11% denser than Goex.
That means that an equal book of Swiss will weigh about 11% more than than Goex.https://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm
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06-21-2019,06:45 AM #13
Boolit Master
why do we keep doin this distortion argument ?? grains is a weight measure - terminate of story ! Originally Posted by arcticap Here'due south a weight to volume conversion chart.
An of import thing to remember is that Swiss powder is approximately 11% denser than Goex.
That means that an equal volume of Swiss volition counterbalance nigh eleven% more Goex.https://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm
yeah make a volume measure that is the perfect load and THEN counterbalance what that measure holds and scratch it on the side for reference - now you got a volume measure that holds a certain grains weight of that detail powder ifn you fill it evenly and the aforementioned equally before - use a dissimilar brand pulverisation or some homemade stuff or tap the measure x times instead of 5 and yre volumetric grains thought is down the toilet! (where it belongs)
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06-21-2019,06:53 AM #14
Boolit Buddy
I take usually used volume as I utilise original flasks so in drams (27 1/ii grains) when I make upward measures for my circular ball rifles I use grains. Apply what ever suits you, volume or grains/weight. If you milkshake a flask yous can increment the weight by volume, to get consistency with a flask takes a trivial practise, simply is quite piece of cake. I just hold it and let the nozzle fill up under it own weight, I get inside a grain from accuse to charge. When I fill a measure from the horn I simply let it fill, I don't milkshake or tap it and information technology is also pretty consistent.
Keep yor hoss well shod an' yo powda dry out !
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06-21-2019,10:57 AM #15
Boolit Master
@ heelerau.
You are Spot On as far as Consistency atmospheric condition it be past Book or Weight.
Observe what your rifle or Pistol likes and stay Consistent.
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06-21-2019,12:04 PM #16
What I'chiliad seeing is that Goex FFFg measured by volume, is pretty close by weight. That's the way it should exist. Originally Posted by arcticap Here's a weight to volume conversion chart.
An of import thing to recall is that Swiss powder is approximately 11% denser than Goex.
That means that an equal volume of Swiss will counterbalance well-nigh 11% more than Goex.https://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm
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06-21-2019,01:07 PM #17
The confusion came with the introduction of Pyrodex and then the copycats. They are all less dense than existent blackness. Thus if ane were to measure them by weight 1 would take a significant overload if one used the Blackness Powder charge weights. Since nearly of us were using book measures anyway (flasks, measured tubes, or homemade) it was easier to only say just use volume measures with the fake powders.
Wayne the Compress
There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you lot to work for me!
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06-21-2019,02:40 PM #18
I don't concur with that all. Originally Posted past Wayne Smith The confusion came with the introduction of Pyrodex and and so the copycats. They are all less dense than real black. Thus if one were to measure them by weight one would have a pregnant overload if one used the Black Powder charge weights. Since most of u.s.a. were using volume measures anyhow (flasks, measured tubes, or homemade) it was easier to simply say but utilise volume measures with the false powders.
Pyrodex did non crusade the defoliation.Everyone knows how fluffy that some home made black powders can exist which are much less dumbo than Goex.
Even black powder from other manufacturers can have unlike densities, simply similar Swiss does.
It's known that sporting powders can take a higher wet content and not all manufacturing processes and ingredients for black powders are the exact same.
Those differences were well known mode before Pyrodex was invented in 1977.That's why the whole muzzle loading industry only uses volumetric grains unless weight is specified, so that there are established standards.
Cartridge case capacity is measured by using the grain weight of water because water has a standard density which coincidentally is almost the exact same equally Goex.
And that's why the conversion chart is helpful.
Simply notice that it only specifies Goex 3F Black Powder and even Goex Express 2F was different.
Express was their cartridge black powder.
How could there e'er exist a conversion chart for homemade blackness powders when people do not usually e'er counterbalance their powder charges in the field?https://world wide web.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm
And that's also why long agone they made a device to measure the relative strength of dissimilar black powders similar the Palmetto Epruvette: --->>> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/evidence...ster-in-Action
Discover that the sleeping room holds an exact book of powder and non weight, and that's how powder strength was measured long before Pyrodex was invented.
Terminal edited past arcticap; 06-21-2019 at 02:49 PM.
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06-21-2019,06:21 PM #nineteen
Boolit Principal
Mate ===there is no such affair as volumetric grains - that is a concocted term - grains is a mensurate of weight. Volume is a measure of space ------ten grains of sawdust is the aforementioned weight as x grains of lead but they take upwardly a dissimilar amount of space ..........................ahhhhhhhh what the heck Originally Posted by arcticap I don't agree with that all.
Pyrodex did not cause the confusion.Everyone knows how fluffy that some domicile made black powders can be which are much less dumbo than Goex.
Even blackness pulverisation from other manufacturers can accept different densities, just like Swiss does.
It's known that sporting powders can take a higher moisture content and non all manufacturing processes and ingredients for blackness powders are the exact same.
Those differences were well known style before Pyrodex was invented in 1977.That's why the whole muzzle loading industry only uses volumetric grains unless weight is specified, so that at that place are established standards.
Cartridge case capacity is measured by using the grain weight of water because water has a standard density which coincidentally is almost the exact aforementioned as Goex.
And that's why the conversion chart is helpful.
Merely detect that it only specifies Goex 3F Blackness Powder and even Goex Express 2F was different.
Express was their cartridge black powder.
How could there ever be a conversion chart for bootleg black powders when people do non normally ever counterbalance their powder charges in the field?https://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm
And that's also why long agone they made a device to measure the relative strength of different black powders like the Palmetto Epruvette: --->>> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/testify...ster-in-Activity
Notice that the chamber holds an exact volume of powder and non weight, and that'due south how powder forcefulness was measured long before Pyrodex was invented.
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06-21-2019,06:27 PM #20
indian joe got it correct - volume is a displacement value, grains are weight, the two don't mix though one could brand very unique comparisons between very specific audited volume/grain data.
statenbroppack1963.blogspot.com
Source: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?383589-Confused-About-Measuring-Black-Powder
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